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Talk:Ōtsutsuki Clan
Clan Description Umm...who wrote the opening discription of the clan? I don't remember hearing those "facts" in the series besides the history Madara expained. Has the Otsustuki Clan even been recognized as an actual clan in the series or does someone just want to add stuff to the infoboxes? This article seems fishy and slightly unnecessary. [[User talk:Banan14kab|''Banan14kab]] 18:13, October 31, 2014 (UTC) :From the 4th databook apparently, check the forums--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 18:16, October 31, 2014 (UTC) :The article's in need of references and maybe even quotation marks depending on how much of it is directly lifted from the databook. '~SnapperT ''' 18:17, October 31, 2014 (UTC) ::Not sure how that is done, manga reference is <*ref>''Naruto'' chapter x, page x no idea what the code for databooks is--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 18:25, October 31, 2014 (UTC) :::Rasengan#cite note-0 ~SnapperT '' 18:34, October 31, 2014 (UTC) ::::I wonder if the books should be referred to in the references as "databook insert number" or by their names, I chose Jin no Sho rather than 4th Databook--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve]] Talk Page| 19:01, October 31, 2014 (UTC) You can just use either but 4th data book is the better one considering not many will know what "Jin no Sho is. Munchvtec (talk) 06:28, November 2, 2014 (UTC) Indra and Asura Can Indra and Asura be added as members, as they are Hagoromo's sons? --LordofBraxis (talk) 21:36, October 31, 2014 (UTC) :As long as we don't have their last names, no. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:37, October 31, 2014 (UTC) ::Even if Either Asura or Indra are the actual founders of the senju and uchiha clans, it doesn't change the fact that they were born into the Otsutsuki clan. We don't remove Mito from the Uzumaki clan, do we? And in case you're thinking, 'what if they took their Mother's surname', you do realize who their father is? And Naruto's case is special, he was an orphan, and people would have been out to get him. You can't use him as a precedent. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 00:32, November 2, 2014 (UTC) Clan Symbol To assure no one will bitch when I upload it. I have made a clan SVG. How do I upload it? What do I place the icon under what fair use, and how do I present it for someone to put it in the infobox. Thanks! In advance--New World God (talk) 02:08, November 1, 2014 (UTC) :# You can upload it . :# CC-by-sa A-S A 3.0 - self :# You can put it here with • Seelentau 愛 議 04:09, November 1, 2014 (UTC) Hey Seelentau, this is the symbol i made. Is there anyway it can be placed on the pages for me. Since i'm not a mod, or anything? --New World God (talk) 04:41, November 1, 2014 (UTC) File:Ootsuki.svg :I'm sorry, but that symbol is not official. Also, it lacks a bit of quality, I think. • Seelentau 愛 議 04:35, November 1, 2014 (UTC) I'll take it. I'm fine with it's deletion. But where exactly do we get the symbols? There is some symbols on this Wiki, that aren't necessarily official. Not to be argumentative. It's more of a question. --New World God (talk) 04:41, November 1, 2014 (UTC) : How about this (I made it)? This was the symbol that was present on the back of Toneri's robes in Kishi's personal sketch of his character and is a combination of Hagoromo's Yin and Yang tattoos. I think that's official enough, right? ~ 'Ten Tailed Fox 07:14, November 1, 2014 (UTC) Man, that's a real sweet design. It'd be a shame if you couldn't use it Ten-tails. Also are you using Inkscape, and what are your setting if you do use it? --New World God (talk) 08:01, November 1, 2014 (UTC) :I actually thought we should use that, too. It looks plain and all, but it's official, so... Oh and about the other unofficial symbols used: They were uploaded before I got active, so I don't know about them. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:16, November 1, 2014 (UTC) ::I dig it Foxie, go on.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 12:43, November 1, 2014 (UTC) Toneri His name doesn't appear amongst the listed members, any fix for that?--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 12:51, November 1, 2014 (UTC) I believe it's because his page is currently locked and no one has bothered to add it in his info box. Munchvtec (talk) 06:29, November 2, 2014 (UTC) :Except Snapper added it.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 09:53, November 2, 2014 (UTC) oh. It's still not there. It must be a bug or something. Munchvtec (talk) 12:56, November 3, 2014 (UTC) Is it possible that his name doesn't appear in the infobox because he is "movie only" ?--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 14:04, November 23, 2014 (UTC) :Yep.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 15:36, November 23, 2014 (UTC) ::More: If he is classified as just a movie character, he won't show up in the infobox. A cheap way of fixing that was to simply add him in Anime and/or manga in addition to movie. He's technically going to be in manga form anyway (in the form of that guidebook and I think there was going to be a manga companion to the film or some nonsense) so yeah. He's int he infobox now.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 15:41, November 23, 2014 (UTC) :::Right, he is going to have a "manga" appearance as well. And for all we know, the movie-manga side-in may even get an anime episode adaptation the same way as Road to Naruto did, eventually--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 16:36, November 23, 2014 (UTC) Traits I think horn-like protrusions, white skin and ability to live on Moon should be added.--Salamancc (talk) 20:37, November 2, 2014 (UTC) :We don't know if horns are common for them, just because Kaguya has them doesn't mean they all do. Also Toneri's skin appears normal to me, but he may be part human like Ashura/Indra and so--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 20:49, November 2, 2014 (UTC) so in a nutshell basically the Otsutsuki clan are extraterrestrials aka aliens --Dayle14 (talk) 09:08, November 4, 2014 (UTC) what does Otsutsuki mean anyway? I know Tsuki means moon in japanese :Wooden cannon or so--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 10:03, November 4, 2014 (UTC) ::I was personally wondering about their species type as well. So are Hagoromo and Humra even human? I know Madara said they were the first humans born with chakra, but still it seems strange that their clan originates from another world (I'm guessing in an alternate dimension). Any thoughts on this anyone? [[User talk:Banan14kab|''Banan14kab]] 08:58, November 5, 2014 (UTC) :::Madara knew only as much as Hagoromo and Black Zetsu wanted to--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 12:48, November 5, 2014 (UTC) I wonder what they eat on the moon. No... I wonder what they breathe...--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 23:46, December 4, 2014 (UTC) :: Who's to say the Naruto-verse's moon doesn't have an atmosphere? Plus, couldn't they use Ninshuu to summon or create stuff to eat? Arawn 999 (talk) 02:41, January 18, 2015 (UTC) Is that true? The translation I saw said that the Otsutsuki clan are earthlings, but they chose to live on the moon and guard the Gedo Statue.Malcasablanca (talk) 01:30, January 18, 2015 (UTC) :No, they arrived from space on Earth for the purpose of having Kaguya eat the Shinju's fruit--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 09:44, January 18, 2015 (UTC) Otsutsuki clan crest like the rest of the clans, I'd suggest we should do the crest of the sun and crescent on the Otsutsuki. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:%C5%8Ctsutsuki_Symbol.svg Agreed? Kunoichi101 (talk) 05:48, December 6, 2014 (UTC) Tenseigan The Tenseigan should get added to the clan's Kekkei Genkai. So Both the Tenseigan and Kekkei Genkai should get added to the page. Sin2 (talk) 06:05, December 14, 2014 (UTC) so where did you found this "Tenseigan"? you need proof whether or not this is legit. Kunoichi101 (talk) 06:12, December 14, 2014 (UTC) :... -_- Retsu no Sho, the databook for The Last: Naruto the Movie. You honestly think we just made that up without sources? ~•[[User:WindStar7125|WS7125]]Mod 06:14, December 14, 2014 (UTC) ::I agree with Wind Star, even it was from the fourth databook, Tenseigan is nothing, but a made-up name and not an actual name as a legit. Kunoichi101 (talk) 06:17, December 14, 2014 (UTC) :::No, you misunderstood my statement. It was stated in the databook that the powerful dojutsu Toneri wields in the movie is known as the "Tenseigan." It's not made up. It's from the databook. ~•[[User:WindStar7125|WS7125]]Mod 06:18, December 14, 2014 (UTC) ::::XO. then should we create the dojutsu article? Kunoichi101 (talk) 06:19, December 14, 2014 (UTC) :::::Already created the article. And already requested that the svg image for the eye be made. :P ~•[[User:WindStar7125|WS7125]]Mod 06:22, December 14, 2014 (UTC) Correct me if I'm wrong, but this "tenseigan" or whatever shit, is nothing but Byakugan chakra from hundreds-thousands Ootsutsuki used by a guy. So how exactly is it any different from Byakugan? In my opinion it should get just a subsection in Byakugan article.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 10:57, December 14, 2014 (UTC) :A Mangekyo Sharingan is a further mutated Sharingan. Why does it have it's own article? (Basically, it's probably getting it's own article.)--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 11:29, December 14, 2014 (UTC) ::This ain't even a "Mangekyou" Byakugan, just many Byakugan chakras put into a pair of Byakugan. If anything, it's like "eternal byakugan" just without the mangekyou part--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 11:48, December 14, 2014 (UTC) :::If I recall correctly, Suzakun described it more like a power, not an actual eye...? I think since the eyes Toneri has are Hanabi's, they can't be the Tenseigan... or maybe I'm wrong? No idea ^^' • Seelentau 愛 議 16:40, December 14, 2014 (UTC) Kekkei Genkai Shouldnt we add rinnegan and sharingan to the kekkei genkai list, since we know they both are blood related kekkei Genkais? --Keeptfighting (talk) 23:39, December 15, 2014 (UTC) : From what I understand, Kaguya gained the Rinne Sharingan through eating the Shinju's chakra fruit, and the Rinnegan and Sharingan are descended from that. They're not powers the Ōtsutsuki Clan normally possess, but unique to Kaguya and Hagoromo, and those who possess their chakra. Arawn 999 (talk) 09:59, December 17, 2014 (UTC) :: Wood release is counted as the kekkei genkai of the Senju clan even though it manifested in only 1 of its memebers so i don't see why we wouldn't list the sharingan in the Otsutsuki clan kekkei genkai list as Indra awakened it. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 11:02, December 17, 2014 (UTC) :::Some assholish reasoning akin to: "Senju Clan was renown for Mokuton (apparently?) despite having had a sole user" while "Ootsutsuki Clan hasn't been renown for the Rinnegan or Sharingan" Also Rinne Sharingan and Rinnegan don't exactly seem to be hereditary. Just in one generation, Rinne Sharingan got split into Rinnegan and the Rinnegan got split into Sharingan and arm&chest face transplants.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 16:00, December 17, 2014 (UTC) ::::So you're saying the sage wasn't renowned for his rinnegan? And that the people (at the time he was living) didn't know what clan he was from? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 17:35, December 20, 2014 (UTC) Sealed Eyes The article is unclear as to what it means by "sealed"? Is it like what the Hyūga Main Family's Juinjutsu does, or do they physically extract the eyes upon birth? Arawn 999 (talk) 10:05, December 17, 2014 (UTC) :they did sealed their eyes thus becoming blind. and of course giving birth cause a child become blind like Toneri for example. also the reason why they sealed their eyes is because of this: "If they determined that mankind were using their chakra for evil after a millennium, they would unleash that power upon them." Kunoichi101 (talk) 09:37, December 20, 2014 (UTC) kekkei genkai business again What's the rationale for not listing Rinne Sharingan, Rinnegan, Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, Tenseigan, Shikotsumyaku?--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 15:45, January 31, 2015 (UTC) :They were never attributed to the clan as a whole. And Shikotsumyaku is still not Kaguya's Kekkei Genkai. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:47, January 31, 2015 (UTC) ::Wood Release too has a sole Senju user, yet the clan page lists it as their Kekkei Genkai. Kimimaro was only known Shikotsumyaku user in the entire clan, listed as clan kekkei genkai as well. Also the Shikotsumyaku-Kaguya thing confuses me.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 15:50, January 31, 2015 (UTC) ::: Apparently the Shikotsumyaku is a weaker version of Kaguya's bone ability, which according to the page for it is not a kekkei genkai but a Kekkei Mōra. Arawn 999 (talk) 16:35, January 31, 2015 (UTC) ::::Well, then why don't we list that in her infobox as "kekkei mora: Shikotsumaku" in a similar vein, we list Byakugan as her Kekkei Genkai despite it being her Kekkei Mora for her, some consistency please.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 16:58, January 31, 2015 (UTC) ::::: Huh? The Byakugan counts as a Kekkei Mora? I thought the Rinne Sharingan (and All-Killing Ash Bones, which are unlisted) were her Kekkei Mora. Arawn 999 (talk) 17:20, January 31, 2015 (UTC) @Arawn It started here, we know Byakugan is a kekkei Genkai, but Kaguya's Byakugan might be an exception considering that she is the originator of chakra so all of her techniques are Kekkei Mōra.--Naruto uzu6254 (talk) 17:42, January 31, 2015 (UTC) : I see. The Fourth Databook needlessly complicated a lot of things, didn't it? Arawn 999 (talk) 17:53, January 31, 2015 (UTC) ::Byakugan is to us known as Kekkei Genkai and Kaguya has it, yet Jin no Sho lists her only as Kekkei Mora user but not Kekkei Genkai, implying her Byakugan is Kekkei Mora, unless Kishi or his staff forgot to add Kekkei Genkai as well, shrugs. But anyway, back to the main point, that being rationalizing the omission of the aforementioned doujutsu and bones stuff.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 19:05, January 31, 2015 (UTC) ::: Well, Jin no Sho does leave out a ''lot of stuff. There's a forum thread somewhere about all the mistakes and omissions in it. Arawn 999 (talk) 19:15, January 31, 2015 (UTC) Well if there already started topic i wrote my rant here: Am not against placing Byakugan as Otsutsuki KKG am against Tenseigan. Why? Since no one from Otsutsuki clan have it awekened via natural eye evolution(As MS).Yes Hamura was Otsutsuki(but he was Kaguya's son as Hagoromo). So in short: By situation we have etherway Tenseigan is removed from clan KKG or it need to be added to Hyūga clan as well as Rinnegan needed to be added to Senju/Uzumaki and Uchiha clan for sole semantic reason. ./Rage gtx (talk) 21:03, January 31, 2015 (UTC) :That's what I'm talking about... lack of consistency and reasoning. In my opinion, any kekkei genkai naturally possessed by a clan member should be attributed to the clan.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 22:17, January 31, 2015 (UTC) Bumping this since discussions die here so easily with rarely getting resolved.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 08:39, February 7, 2015 (UTC) :As I said, the Kekkei Genkai were never attributed to the clan as a whole. Neither was the Mokuton kkg, I don't know why we do that. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:31, February 7, 2015 (UTC) ::Well, things should be consistent. So I'm okay with whichever action gets made, I just want it fixed.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 16:19, February 7, 2015 (UTC) :::Bump.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 12:36, February 8, 2015 (UTC) Of the known Otsutsuki clan members, we've seen the Rinnegan, the Byakugan, the Sharingan, and the associated forms. Shikotsumyaku apparently successor of her Ash-Killing Bones but itself is not Shikotsumyaku, unless we decided to pick and choose how much the databook is "correct". But yeah no reason to not add the Three Great Dojutsu.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 13:31, February 8, 2015 (UTC) :I'm very glad that someone agrees. Seelentau's rationale for not listing those is that only Kekkei "whatever" should be listed as belonging to the whole clan if there is more than one member with it. In that case, either Wood Release should be removed from Senju Clan page and Shikotsumyaku from Kaguya Clan page, or we list the aforementioned doujutsu here properly, consistency is needed.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 16:02, February 8, 2015 (UTC) ::Agree with Elveonora (for once) in citing consistency. We cannot afford to be selective in manners such as this. -- WindStar7125 (talk | ) 21:31, February 9, 2015 (UTC) :::I'm against listing the S/MS/R/RS. They were not known for their use. Maybe the S/MS, but that would require a certain that Indra's more immediate, pre-Uchiha descendants also awakened them, which is too speculative to me. Shikotsumyaku doesn't hold in your argument. Kimimaro might be the only Kaguya we saw with it, but the kk was mentioned to be rare within the clan, meaning other clan members developed it in the past. The Senju clan got a moniker because of WR, it was pretty much advertised. Omnibender - Talk - 21:40, February 9, 2015 (UTC) ::::Not sure if publicity is a good reason. Is Kaguya an Otsutsuki? Yes. Does she have the Rinne Sharingan? Yes, she does. Members of the clan naturally have/had the aforementioned doujutsu, therefore said doujutsu hail/originate from the Otsutsuki Clan, hence why it should be listed.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 21:48, February 9, 2015 (UTC) :::::Kaguya did not naturally have RS, it comes from an outside source. Having that as a clan thing would be like saying the Shimura clan have the Sharingan over Danzō acquiring it through transplant. Omnibender - Talk - 21:54, February 9, 2015 (UTC) ::::::A Transplant and a genetic mutation from some super fruit are two different things. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 21:56, February 9, 2015 (UTC) species classification and lifespan Should we classify them as "alien" in the infobox? Also I haven't seen the movie yet, but apparently at least one Otsutsuki lived for a very long time, can anyone confirm/deny if their lifespan was touched upon in the movie?--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 23:24, February 5, 2015 (UTC) :Yes, that one Otsutsuki dude lived to tell Hinata of Hamura's decree, but became dust immediately after that, so it's questionable if all Otsutsuki live that long. Also, they're not human, that much is obvious. Hagoromo and Hamura are, but Kaguya...? • Seelentau 愛 議 23:26, February 5, 2015 (UTC) ::We don't know about Hagoromo and Hamura's father. But judging by Hagoromo's appearance it likely was one of their own. Asura and Indra on the other hand look remarkably human, so I guess Hagoromo banged a human chick, almost certainly I would say, since it's stated he was the only one left behind, with the rest having departed to the moon.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 23:37, February 5, 2015 (UTC) :::Hagoromo was stated to be the first human who was born with chakra though. Or am I wrong on that? • Seelentau 愛 議 23:41, February 5, 2015 (UTC) ::::By a person who didn't know the full story or possibly not even a half of it. Hagoromo was also numerous times stated to be father of ninjutsu, yet when Naruto referenced that in front of him, he got angrily corrected that it was Ninshu which he created. It was Indra who created Ninjutsu.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 23:46, February 5, 2015 (UTC) :::::Well technically, Hagoromo was indeed using Ninjutsu by his usage of the TSB in his fight with the Ten-Tails. Technically. -- WindStar7125 (talk | ) 23:52, February 5, 2015 (UTC) "Technically" Kaguya too and so do Samurai. But since Kaguya, Hagoromo, Asura, the Moon Otsutsuki and Samurai aren't Ninja, their "ninjutsu" is such only in modern vocabulary. It wouldn't surprise me if it was called magic in Hagoromo's times.--[[User:Elveonora|'Elve']] Talk Page| 23:55, February 5, 2015 (UTC)